Print Shortlink

Washington Redskins Draft Summary

Selections
Round 2 (35th overall): Rocky McIntosh, LB, Miami
Round 5 (153rd overall): Anthony Montgomery, DT, Minnesota
Round 6 (173rd overall): Reed Doughty, SS, Northern Colorado
Round 6 (197th overall): Kedric Golston, DT, Georgia
Round 7 (230th overall): Kili Lefotu, OG, Arizona
Round 7 (250th overall): Kevin Simon, LB, Tennessee
Trades
Redskins receive the 35th pick (McIntosh) from the NY Jets for the 53rd pick, 189th pick and a 2007 2nd round pick.

Page 1 of 1

20 Responses

  1. Bob McCabe

    Is it just me (honestly, I want to know, I’m not being rhetorical) or does it seem like we have no clue as to the value of a pick? I know that GMs have those point sheets that compare values –

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/peter_king/news/2003/04/21/mmqb/

    - but it seems like we don’t actually use one. I love our 2nd-rounder this year, and I think he’ll be a good player, but two #2s and a #7 for one #2? Eesh. And it seems like every year we’re getting suckered. If I’m a GM for another team, I’m looking to trade down with the Redskins every draft.

  2. Bob McCabe

    I’d delete my prior comment if I could, or at least re-phrase it. :p I read this post, commented, and then read your second post.

    I still stand by the sentiment. You’re stating that we’re in good hands and making good picks – well, wouldn’t we be doing better if we we’re making more picks? Again, I like the pick, and I think he’ll be a good player for us. And we’ve had some good high-round picks lately. But it irks me to see us trade the high picks of tomorrow for a player today.

  3. mk

    Want to criticize the skins on draft day? Don’t do it! Have faith… I’ve been a skins fan ever since I skipped school in the 7th grade to go wait in rain to see Riggo and the skins superbowl parade. I haven’t missed a game since and there hasn’t been a draft that I didn’t say- “Who the hell… c’mon!” But now, that Gibb’s has returned, I have an historical perspective. And one thing I know I know is that Gibb’s is a football god and I am a meer mortal fan. No matter the football decision the skins make from Lavar, Brunnell, to Ramsey, I stop myself and say it makes no sense to me, but I trust Gibbs and therefore I know it was the right decision. You may not have faith yet, but just wait and see. Remember before Gibbs came back, the skins were being compared to the Bengals and the cardinals…

    You Gotta love Gibbs- He is the man with a plan. He knows how to build championship teams.

    Last year he trades this year’s first, expecting at the time we make the playoffs, and get a QB he wants and also buys time to develop him. This year, goes to Free Agency and fills needs with proven vets, and trades next years 2nd to move up enough to still get quality and a LB to fill a need to boot. Plus, he scoures the country to find gems late. Do you remember Mark’s Shlearth, holding his own at guard against Reggie White in his first start as a rookie? I do. He was a LATE round find.

    Next year’s offseason expect very little in Free Agency and more focus on the draft. Monies for next year were calculated into this years crop of FA’s signings and resigning key players next season. I fully expect Gibb’s to get quality in the 2007 Draft by using next years 1 & 3, and bundeling the 2008 1&3 to in trades to draft whoever the skins target. And then focus on FA in 2008 when money loosens. It’s a pattern that will help build and sustain a winning team.

    Gibb’s Greatness comes from knowing how to cater the system to the talents of his players, and knowing and agressively finding the components needed to win.

    1983 & 1984 Superbowls, Gibb’s proved himself. He built the teams character, and won the SB with defense and power football. Many coaches win Superbowls and are not Hall of Fame. These years put Gibb’s on map, but didn’t define him for greatness.

    In 1987, I consider Gibb’s a genious by getting the most out of the least to win his second Superbowl. If it wasn’t for Gibb’s pure coaching to win the Scab games, I don’t think the skins would of even made the playoffs. And, then Gibb’s pulled off pure magic on defense by shuffling personal and surprising teams in the playoffs with the hard hitting Alvin Walton on the blitz and run support. Holding back Walton for the playoffs bought Gibbs a few playoff wins and another SB. The very next year, Parcell’s decided to test Walton one on one with Megget?, and we discovered the shell game. Walton, a safety, couldn’t cover the “flea” Russ Grimm. And, one of my favorite Redskins career was cut short when the secret was out.

    In 1991, Gibbs coached the most talented Redskin team ever to a third Chamionship. Gibb’s did it again. He knew what remaining pieces he needed and built the most dominate Redskins team in history. And, with the 1991 team, Gibb’s went to the Beathard and said I need RB and DT. Sure enough Beathard traded picks for a couple run stuffing DT’s and power back Riggs and Byner. The skins DOMINATED that year.

    The reason I’m writing this sychophantic (Look it up) dribble is because I haven’t read about the Skins having a good draft — ever! And now, instead of getting pissed, I just say to myself In Gibbs we trust!

    Go skins!

  4. Bob McCabe

    Thanks for the history lesson on the ‘Skins, but it really wasn’t necessary. I’ve been following them pretty closely for about 20 years now, and know all the basics you pointed out. Still, I’m all for obsequiousness when it comes to the Redskins.

    But to the point of your post, it sounds like you’re saying that Gibbs is such a good coach that we may as well pull out of the NFL Draft, because it doesn’t matter if we waste picks or not. Is that about the sum of it? And that’s what bugs me! Let’s get Gibbs some weapons! A whole fleet of them! Let’s build for the future while taking advantage of today.

    How about this? Peter King wrote in his Monday Morning Quarterback that “Thompson thought the Packers could trade down from 36 and still get him. So they got the two picks from New England, then turned the 37th pick from the Walker deal and their 139th pick into three picks from Atlanta, one of which was turned into two more picks from St. Louis, one of which was turned into two picks from Philadelphia. The bounty: Colledge at 43, wideout Greg Jennings at 52, center Jason Spitz at 75, wideout Will Blackmon at 115, quarterback Ingle Martin at 148, defensive tackle Johnny Jolly at 183, free safety Tyrone Culver at 185. “I believe this team needed to add core players for the future, and I think we’re better today than we were at the start of the weekend,” Thompson said.”

    And, as my Dad said, “I dont really obsess over what we gave for what we got, because it comes down to wanting someone that is going to be an integral part of your team and a good fit. In other words when a player is that important, then you have to accept it. … Having said that, I’d argue that it seems to be an annual event. They always want some player who they have to pay more than they have to give. Why does every other team seem to avoid that same dilemma? Its always only us. And second, its contradictory. They always go heavy on free agents because they are sour on the draft and then they suddenly fall in love with a player in the draft. … In any case its a haphazard system because we can’t seem to develop players. Some teams can and so they can “do it on the cheap and without trades”.”

    Meh. :D

  5. mk

    PLEASE…. All I’m saying is that there is a method to the madness. Yes- we don’t have alot of picks this year, but we didn’t waste any of them. My point is the only thing I know with certainty is that Gibbs and company knows alot more than any fan. Trust in the hall of famer- he knows how to win. And guess what… we’re winning. The trade up was only a waste if this kid doesn’t turn out. And- as far as paying too much- there was a run on Linebackers and we wanted this guy specifically. The fact that you even listen to Peter “Redskin Hater” King makes me laugh… I would be interested in knowing why he is so obviously biased… That would be a story…

  6. Bob McCabe

    Man… mk, what are you doing? :) You’re an apologist! And yeah, I love the Redskins, too, so I can’t get too down on you for being an apologist. We share the same obsession.

    But you’re just taking it that extra step and it’s unhealthy. For example, you can hold a grudge against Peter King all you want (though he had a nice comment about our spending strategy in a recent column, and he seems to be one of the first in the mainstream media to have caught a clue on that count), but you have to keep yourself grounded in reality. Don’t you? You can’t discount the facts.

    What are the facts? Green Bay re-loaded (the point of the Peter King quote)! That’s what you call a drafting strategy! Trade up, trade down, get players, stock your team. You should be doing it every year. Look at what Dallas did when JJ was in town! Stock up! Those draftees, especially the high round ones, can do some wonders for a team.

    And the Redskins? There is no method to the madness when it comes to our draft strategy. None at all. Our draft strategy is not a method; it’s a failure. What Gibbs and staff is doing is called damage control. Our drafting strategy didn’t get them all the players they needed, so they had to do other things to compensate: i.e. rely more heavily upon free agency, eek a few extra hours out of the coaching staff, trade away future draft picks (borrowing from the future), etc.

    Again – we did pretty well last year ESPECIALLY when you consider what the preseason prognosticators were saying about us, and I think we can both agree that Gibbs is a top coach of all time, but… come on, be honest… imagine a world where we had a great draft, TOO… AND we had a few rookie surprises… or maybe the extra picks we didn’t make the year or two prior, but in this fantasy we had, imagine that they were coming on strong now… imagine what Gibbs could have done with that influx of talent.

    Maybe the road wouldn’t have stopped as short as it did, eh?

    Final point – you’re deferring any discussion on the basis that we don’t know how well Rocky is going to play, because he’s not yet strapped on the pads for the Skins. Although we can both assume he’ll be the next three-down stud, until he plays we won’t know. Well, that’s true. But we can go back in time.

    Four picks in 2004. Six last year and this year. Well, a team normally gets seven picks so that isn’t too bad. Right? Except… our low round picks aren’t as good as our high round picks. And we’re trading away our high round picks. And you can start that discussion with Molinaro and Wilson – Gibbs’ first two low-round (outside the top three rounds) picks.

    Reiteration: Gibbs is our best hope. Our drafting strategy is uninspired. Thank God for a system like Free Agency where we can compensate for our short-comings by stealing other teams players! ;)

  7. mk

    Reiteration:
    1. Bite Me!
    2. Free Agency, trades, & the draft are all tools that Gibb’s has used to build our winning team. Thanks to Gibbs- the Redskins have an overall strategy.
    3. If you listen to idiots like King, I can see how you would wrongly think that we steal players, over pay in free agency, draft poorly, somehow manipulate the Salary cap, and pay our players under the table. All teams play by the same set of rules. To insinuate otherwise is irresponsible.

    And, Gibb’s has played with in the rules to turn the skins back into a winner.

  8. Bob McCabe

    Poor Mr. Gibbons. I’m sorry to fill up your comments section. :)

    I had to go back to my original post to remember what we were talking about. I commented that we don’t seem to know the value of a pick. It seems like we fixate on one guy so much that we’re willing to give up anything to get him. The problem is that we were so fixated on Campbell last year, that we couldn’t get Rocky this year. So we had to be desperate to get Rocky this year, and we’ll see how that affects us with the player we want to draft next year.

    1. :p
    2. Again, agreed. We have an *overall* strategy. Would that overall strategy be better if we had some more draft picks? Hard to say…
    3. No one is insinuating anything. Simmer down. Here’s a quote from King:

    [quote]I hear it every winter — from editors, readers, people in line at Starbucks. (True story: I got asked at an Orlando Starbucks during the league meetings how the Redskins were able to sign 10 guys to gigantic contracts every year.) The answer: They don’t. It’s 70 percent funny money. Take the case of linebacker Andre Carter, signed to a reported seven-year, $32.5 million contract on March 15. It’s more accurately a one-year, $5.85 million deal, or a two-year, $10.18 million contract, or a three-year, $13.5 million deal. See, the Redskins sign players to long deals, but the contracts are back-loaded, meaning the players would get most of the money in the final years of the contracts, if they get the money at all. And if Carter turns out to be the defensive force the Redskins hope he’ll be, they’ll almost certainly let him play the first two years, then re-do the deal before the fat money kicks in. Specifically, in Carter’s case, he has two major slices of money he may never see: $13.4 million, combined, in five separate roster bonuses to be earned if he’s on the roster in 2008, ’09, ’10, ’11 and ’12; and salaries totaling $8.9 million between 2008 and 2012. Collectively, that’s $22.3 million of $32 million he may never see. Now the other question you have is this: Won’t the Redskins get killed on the salary cap if they release Carter after, say, two years? The answer is not really, because the only part of his contract that’s guaranteed is the signing bonus, which is $5 million. [/quote]

    What an idiot? Sounds like King is saying we DO NOT overpay in free agency or “manipulate” the salary cap or pay players under the table.

    Drafting poorly? Well, there you’d have an argument. ;)

    How’s this for a draft?

    Rod Gardner
    Fred Smoot
    Sage Rosenfels
    Darnerian McCants
    Mario Monds

    That was our 2001 class. I’m still a big fan of Smoot, and wish he were a ‘Skin. I thought McCants had some serious potential. Too bad he could only do it for Spurrier. Sage? Rod? :) I don’t even remember Monds.

    But that’s all besides the point, as I’m sure you’ve figured out by now. The draft is a crap shoot and even Gibbs can make some bad picks (Desmond Howard anyone? Mo Elewonibi? I think I saw big Mo in the CFL!). I would never blame anyone for some bad picks… unless they’re just consistently bad. :D

    But my original question remainds: do we know the value of a draft pick? Do we have a strategy in mind regarding the draft? None of us know the details that the ‘Skins organization know – but does that mean we should just quietly accept every decision? Hell no. I want to talk about it. And I’m going to talk about it to anyone who will listen. This is our common obsession, let’s have fun with it. This is *OUR* team. Let’s act like they really are ours.

    :D

  9. mk

    Do the Redskins know the value of a pick? The future will tell… Since Gibb’s arrival it’s hard to argue the teams done poorly. Campbell???? hasn’t played yet by design. Cooley & Rogers sure worked out… so far. Late round players??? they have to develop. One thing that is obvious is Gibb’s goes after who he wants in Free Agency, the draft, and by trade. So giving up picks, or trading picks to target certain players is part of the overall strategy, and it’s working. My point is there is no way to know, but I do know that Gibb’s has a plan and it’s working.

    I don’t want to defend the Redskins draft prior to Gibbs second tenure. Players were drafted for certain systems and there was a reason Casserly was fired. And the 10+ losing years we had to endure was embarrissing. We should enshrine Norv, Casserly, & Spurrior in the hall of shame. If You want to argue there were mistakes made in the draft & free agency during that period, then well – no duh!

    What I find amusing is that you quoted a Peter King’s article about how the Redskins were able to get under the cap- year after year. When that article came out, I wondered if Peter King tasted crow when he wrote it. King was very vocal about the skins problems with the cap prior to that article even with out a new CBA. Please follow the link below to Warpathinsiders.com.

    http://redskins.scout.com/2/510409.html

    A much more interesting question, is why the media has portrayed the skins in such a negative light in the last couple of years? Gibb’s has turned a disaster into gold, and there should be positive press. Instead, all I hear about is overpaying players, mistakes in free agency, poor drafting…

    Why does the media paint in such dark colors?

    I frankly think the answer is that sport reporters are lazy. I love Kornheiser and Wilbon, but even Kornheiser wrote an opinion piece insinuating that the skins somehow circumvent the cap. Please… do your home work! Unfortunately, the skins have been BAD for a long time, and reporters find it easier write what they are used to writing. Or just picking up and reiterating someone elses dribble. And that leaves the question… Is there a media bias?

  10. smyke

    Wow. You’ve got to love a heated debate. I’m going to fall on Mr McCabe’s side on this one. I agree, mk, that the media loves to bash the Redskins. Everyone loves an underdog story but the richest team in the NFL does will never be that. Peter King is right, we do go out and overpay at times for the free agents we want which, of course, helps set the standards that player agents use in negotiation with other teams. Do we manipulate the cap? No, but we do find the loophole. Every other team does as well, we just have more cash at our disposal for signing bonus’, an advantage other teams usually can’t compete with. But, I do agree that in some areas we now have better control of that since Gibbs came on board. If Joe says he want’s someone, Snyder damn well goes and gets him, using every trick (or $) at his disposal. Every year, someone tallies up how much cash the Redskins ACTUALLY pay for players that year, and every year it’s $20-40million or more over the cap. We do it consistently year after year with no down makeup years to pay off past contracts. The only thing that has saved us in recent years the increase in the cap year after year, which has exceeded expectations. —-I’ve got to go but I’ll come back to this later.

  11. Bob McCabe

    Good point, Smyke. The current system is, in my opinion, unfair. But, as a proud Redskins fan, I’m glad to see us playing to the limits of the law in every way. Our team wants to win, and I love that. Every one has been criticizing Snyder since the day he came on-board, but I knew he just needed time to figure things out. Ya know what, I’d hate to be a fan of some team that just cheaps out and only wins despite the efforts.

    But like I said, the system is unfair and I’d be fine if the NFL decided to move to something like the NBA uses, or maybe what NFL Europe uses/used? The NFL is so strong right now that it’s not even an issue, I guess. :)

    And you’re both right about the media. They do love to criticize us. Seriously, who of us really believed we’d hit 4-12 or 5-11 last year, like most outlets predicted? I didn’t think we’d go 10-6 and make the play-offs, and win a game, but I didn’t think we’d be far off. I also loved it when we were like 5-5 or 5-6 or whatever… a few of my co-workers were like, “The Redskins aren’t *mathematically* eliminated… yet… bwahahaha.” It was nice to see them both eat crow. The media ate some crow, they just won’t admit it. But you can tell by their coverage this year that they know they can’t get away with the cheap shots anymore.

    I’m still wishing we were a little more organized with our drafting strategy, but what are you going to do? Any year where you sign a coach like Saunders into the fold, you can’t complain too much I suppose.

    :)

  12. Bob McCabe

    Heh, spotted a nice post elsewhere… short and eloquent, unlike any of my posts, but says everything I tried to say. :D

    “… a team that squanders its draft assets. Our deal for “Rocky” was ludicrously expensive. Look at what we gave up to the Jets! In contrast, look at what the Jets gave up to acquire Ramsey from us. Notice a difference? Others are laughing in our faces. And all for what? To replace Arrington! Patrick and LeVar must be having a difficult time controlling their laughter, as are general managers in Philadelphia and Dallas. I’m an intense Redskins fan, but not to the point where their foolish actions cannot be called into question. Now go ahead, have at me!”

    Again, we play the rest of the game so aggressively that something like this won’t be the doom of us, but… well, I’ve said enough in this thread on this topic. :D

  13. mk

    Smyke- love your comments… With that said, I think your buying into the hype. In regards to the salary cap you used words like “Loop hole”,”Trick”, and alluded to the Redskins advantage to paying big cash signing bonuses to attract players in free agency. The Redskins play by the same rules as every other team. They have no advantage except maybe that they have a good salary cap manager who has done a nice job predicting the following years cap. The most profitable team in the NFL for years has been the stingy Cincinatti Bengals. I’m not saying they produce the most revenue, but they produce the most profits. Any NFL team can choose to dole out the cash if they want to, but instead they choice not to. By giving large signing bonuses, a team in effect guarantees money to players that may not turn out. So most teams choose not to give large bonuses because they don’t want to take on a large risk. It’s a strategy decision- and a very popular one with cheap owners. There is not a memeber of the billionares club in the NFL that couldn’t give large bonuses, but there are many that choose not to. Thank you SNYDER! One think King’s eat crow article pointed out was the Redskins don’t overpay, they over Guarantee. It’s a strategy that allows them to get who they want, and when it doesn’t work out it hurts.

    In reference to overpaying for the trade- a late 2nd and next years 2nd to move up to early 2nd round is by the book. They may have over payed with the 6th pick??? You can’t say whether it was a good trade because you don’t how Rocky will turn out. But it wasn’t a Bad value.

    Getting a 6 for Ramsey kinda sucks. But, when it’s common knowledge your giving up on the player and are going to be letting the guy go, you take what you can get. Look at Culpepper, one of the best QB’s in the league is only valued at a 2nd. I like Ramsey, but he is a gun slinger, and Gibb’s values lesser performance for less turnovers. In time, I think he will do well with the Jets.

    Anyway- GO SKINS! Superbowl 2007!

  14. Bob McCabe

    When the Redskins are paying over the cap, but managing to stay under the cap, you have to admit that there’s probably some kind of trick to the trade to make it all work legitimately. The Redskins are being creative whereas many other teams are not.

    As for your “profit” claim, I’m not sure where you’re getting your information from. I haven’t been able to find anything making similar claims (but I haven’t spent hours looking, either).

    http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/30/Rank_2.html

    This shows that the operating income (Earnings before interest, taxes and depreciation). I’m not sure that they can the most profitable team in the NFL based on that, but I’m not sure.

  15. mk

    The redskins paying out over the cap in signing bonuses is within the rules. If it wasn’t, teams would be raising hell.

    The Redskins are betting the salary cap will be raised every year and taking a risk with thier current signings. The signing bonuses are prorated over a certain number of years, and if the player doesn’t work out, it’s hurts. If the CBA wasn’t agreed upon, they would be in trouble. Paying upfront is a risk, and the skins were not active in Free Agency last year because they gut burned by loud mouth Coles, and trading him accelerated the bonus. They also have to carry an injury prone kicker in Hall because they might as well– the money is tied up. Much like the skins drafting strategy during beatherds time, they steal from next year, to give them an advantage this year. Considering the money tied up in high round draft picks who may or may not make it, I would rather focus on proven vets, or draft late 1st early 2nd round because of salary considerations on unproven players. The 1st pick in the draft is a curse.

    I was shocked to hear the Bengals were such a profitable franchise during the CBA talks. But it makes sense. Teams don’t have spend to the cap. There is a minimum and I bet the cheap Bengals owner knows that figure better than the cap. And if you don’t spend on operations or players, you reap greater profits from the tv revenue sharing.

    http://www.cincypost.com/2004/08/04/stad080404.html

    The Skins have the most valuable franchise thanks to loyal fans. I don’t think the skins have the most profitable, thanks to a generious owner in Snyder, who will make gazillions if he were to ever sell.

    Snyder has by far the best quality in an owner- the willingness to win and spend money. His weakness was not leaving the football decisions to football people and I think he has changed his tune since comming to the league. With that said, Gibb’s gave up the offense. The question is was that decision motivated by Snyder, or does Gibbs really trust the new offensive guru?

  16. Jacko

    MK- The bengals can’t be the most profitable team. I agree about the salary cap. Teams all play with the same rules. If you’re an owner, you can afford to fork over the cash for signing bonuses. Great stuff! King isn’t as bad as Prisco.

    Bob, I have to agree with MK on the trade. Fair value. Good Move. We need a LB.

    Dallas Sucks

  17. The Redskin Report » Blog Archive » The Value of Draft Picks

    [...] Thanks to the great debate by Bob McCabe and mk in the comments section of the Draft Summary post, I figured we should probaby take a look at all these draft pick trades the Redskins have made over the years and see how they turned out in retrospect. [...]

  18. Bob McCabe

    Looking forward to it! :D

  19. smyke

    The only way the Bungles can be the most profitable is either by profit margin or % increase in profit since Marvin Lewis arrived.
    Before that, no one in Cinci admitted to being a fan let alone paid money for apparel and stuff. People outside the fan base love trash Snyder as one of the worst owners. That’s crap. He want’s to win as much as any fan and he’s willing to put up the cash to prove it. The only complain that may have been valid is that he makes GM or coaching moves with regard to players without the experience necessary for that job. That’s changed with Gibbs so far. Heck, that changed with Spurrier to a degree, just Steve’s decisions didn’t work in the NFL. Snyder is definitely learning and if he were to start going back to his old ways, I think he’d make better personnel decision. Better than most fans anyway. —-off to work. Later

Leave a Reply